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We built the internet. We championed social media. We're now building AI. But what if, looking back, we made things worse?
In this candid and wide-ranging conversation, Teresa and Petra wrestle with a question that's hard to ask from inside tech: is the industry we've dedicated our careers to actually net positive for the world? From a chance comment by a non-tech family member to jarring observations about human isolation in San Francisco, this episode doesn't shy away from the discomfort.
They explore the role of greed in how technology has evolved, what the "tech bro" narrative is costing us in human terms, the loneliness epidemic, and why speaking to people outside our industry echo chambers might be one of the most important things we can do. But they don't stop at critique — they also cast a genuinely hopeful vision for what responsible, community-centered technology could look like, including the idea of "mom and pop tech" that serves neighborhoods, not shareholders.
If you work in tech and you've ever had a nagging feeling that something's gone wrong — this one is for you.
Key Takeaways
- The honest self-reckoning: Both Petra and Teresa reflect on having been active contributors to technologies — social media, the internet, AI — that have had real negative consequences, even when built with good intentions.
- Greed as the root cause: The shift from "make people's lives better" to "extract maximum value at any human cost" is framing a lot of what feels broken about tech right now.
- The loneliness crisis is real: Technology has been used to replace human connection rather than supplement it — and the two hosts see this as one of the most pressing consequences of how the industry has operated.
- The echo chamber problem: Teresa's floored reaction when a family member called the internet "net negative" is a reminder of how insulated tech workers are from how the rest of the world experiences their work.
- "Mom and pop tech" as an antidote: Rather than massive horizontal platforms built to scale, there's a hopeful model emerging where AI enables hyper-local, community-specific software — bespoke tools built by and for neighborhoods, not VCs.
- Changing parent norms around phones: Petra shares a striking observation from her daughter's school in Germany — where just five years ago half of 7–8 year olds had phones, parents now unanimously agree to hold off until age 11 or 12.
- We still have agency: Technology is a tool. The future isn't written yet. Choosing who you work for, what you build, and what narratives you amplify all matter.
Topics Discussed
- The personal and professional reckoning of working in tech during a period of visible harm
- Social media's broken promise: democratization vs. polarization
- The San Francisco "isolation by design" observation — QR codes, Waymos, and the disappearance of human interaction
- The greed cycle in tech: comparing today's climate to the railroad tycoon era
- Tech layoffs as a symptom of a deeper value problem
- What it means to be a responsible citizen in the tech industry
- The "inch wide, mile deep" approach to community-focused tech
- Ride share as a case study in extractive platform capitalism — and what a local alternative could look like
- The role of product people as educators and narrative-spreaders
- Why human physical touch, care, and community can't be automated
Resources & Links:
- Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
- Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com
Mentioned in the episode:
- Product at Heart - Petra's conference, mentioned in the context of sharing alternative narratives about technology's future
- Arne Kitller of Product at Heart
- How to Save Democracy — podcast episode Petra listened to on community spaces, climate resilience, and local tech models
- Don’t be evil - Google’s former motto, and a phrase used in Google’s corporate code of conduct
- Elternabend
- Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community — book referenced by Teresa on the loneliness epidemic in the US
- Ronnie Varghese
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